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Rick F

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Reply with quote  #1 
Latest report states 26 dead (AK47 and bombs) and at least 100 hostage at a (metal) concert.

President Hollande has closed the border.

Let me re-state my position, NO repeat NO so-called 'refugees' should be taken in before a THOROUGH vetting process is completed on them.
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EnoughAllready

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Reply with quote  #2 
This is not a one off!!! This will happen again and again!!! Different country, same results!!!

Last I read is that people are being killed one by one by hostage takers!!!
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Observer

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Reply with quote  #3 
I think people should be careful assigning blame to refugee migration. Obviously this is the work of A group, probably ISIS, but spreading rumours only fuels problems. France has taken the fewest refugees of most other European countries.

I agree screening is important. Not trying to get into a debate. Not the time. Just asking we wait for the facts.
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Head Honcho

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer
I think people should be careful assigning blame to refugee migration. Obviously this is the work of A group, probably ISIS, but spreading rumours only fuels problems. France has taken the fewest refugees of most other European countries. I agree screening is important. Not trying to get into a debate. Not the time. Just asking we wait for the facts.


Words of caution to be sure, but the big question that remains to be addressed is, 'were the perpetrators of this atrocity admitted to France under the 'refugee migration' program'? If they were, it ought to send chills down the spine of every world citizen.

And it further ought to be just cause to tighten immigration policy to the very highest degree. Either that or simply stop all immigration to mitigate further carnage.
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Observer

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Reply with quote  #5 
The answers will come. As I said France has allowed the fewest refugees. But, it is a country with a disproportional number of radicalized home born terrorists. If it turns out to be due to refugee migration. Tough questions and answers will be needed.
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theskeptic

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Reply with quote  #6 

Observer:

I remain confused as to the importance of attempting to determine whether these terrorists were part of the recent Middle East invasion of Europe or whether they arrived there previously and didn’t assimilate. 

Since France has either the first or second largest % of Muslims of any European Union country [about 10% of the entire Fr. population is Muslim], it is possible that these terrorists have been secreting out in one of the many “sensitive urban zones” for years.  If that is the case, it means that the French authorities were not successful in detecting them at the borders or else it means that they were nurtured as part of the French Muslim group who oppose assimilation into the French society. 

If French authorities couldn’t detect and turn away potential terrorists when the flow of M.E. immigrants was relatively low, it is difficult to understand how they will be able to do so when confronted with a mass migration of thousands of M.E. immigrants pressing on their borders. If France was unable to assimilate the relatively small number of Muslims into their Western culture and traditions, it is difficult to understand how this assimilation will occur when confronted with thousands upon thousands of migrants.

To assume that ISSIS or ISSIL will not be planting their terrorist provocateurs among the hundreds of thousands of migrants is naive considering they promised to do exactly that.


 

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Observer

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Reply with quote  #7 
I didn't assume anything. I just said it was too early to say where they are from.
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theskeptic

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer
I didn't assume anything. I just said it was too early to say where they are from.


And my question was basically: "what is the import of your concern?"  

I suggest it is safe to rule out the Quakers, Mennonites, and Seventh Day Adventists although I recognize this could be a large leap of faith on my part.  Secondly, it seems safe to assume that they were Muslim terrorists of some ilk.  So whether they came in this latest migration or were in France previously seems to me to be a rather irrelevant concern. 
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Observer

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Reply with quote  #9 
If you can't see the difference, ridding you of your apparent bias is likely a waste of words.
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Willy

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Reply with quote  #10 
It's easy to make assumptions and jump to conclusions no matter how "obvious" it may seem. How ever it would be prudent to wait until the facts are in. The facts will be borne out in due time. It does no one any good to jump to conclusions.
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theskeptic

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer
If you can't see the difference, ridding you of your apparent bias is likely a waste of words.


I am willing to admit I have a bit of an aversion (or to borrow your words a "bias") to terrorists going into a hall where a bunch of kids are watching a music group and calmly proceeding to kill in excess of 100 people while one of the gunman shouts "Allahu akbar"  ....  

Since terrorism has never been one of my favourite sports and a nihilistic politically correct posturing has never been part of my persona, I suppose I can be accused of not pandering to a rather ill defined idea of "tolerance."

Although I find such characterizations of being "biased" as rather unusual in relation to the facts, I do recognize that it gives the person alleging "bias" that rather warm fuzzy feeling of intellectualism which obviates the need for critical thinking.
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EnoughAllready

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Reply with quote  #12 
If not ISIS, who are we to assume these terrorists were. Everything adds up! I don't want to get into anything that will label me as a racist but seriously..............
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Observer

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Reply with quote  #13 
I said at the beginning it was probably ISIS. That is not the assumption I was talking about.

As for skeptic, not in the mood for you to twist words for your own personal amusement.

Not sure there is anyone other than terrorists who tolerate or who do not get sick about terroism.

You conveniently mix words and statements, which I suppose feeds your own desire to be perceived as an intelligent critical thinker when it is just a mask for hatred, which is obvious due to the fact you fail so miserably at understanding the distinction I am making.

But, hey a Muslim is a Muslim.
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theskeptic

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Reply with quote  #14 
Observer:  You said in part: "You conveniently mix words and statements, which I suppose feeds your own desire to be perceived as an intelligent critical thinker when it is just a mask for hatred, which is obvious due to the fact you fail so miserably at understanding the distinction I am making. " which seems to demonstrate three things:

a) you intentionally ignored the substance of my initial comments, or
b) you failed to understand the substance of my comments, and
c)  since you can't deal with issues substantively you resort to the tired old tactic of the ad hominem  attacks. 

My initial point was not the little cliche which you seem to be alleging is my position namely "all muslims are terrorist"  my initial question was quite simple ... what difference would it make if these muslim terrorists were recent migrants to France or had lived there for some period of time?  Why that would be significant is beyond my conception ..... but never mind the discussion is now starting to recyle.

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Observer

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Reply with quote  #15 
No. Ad hominem would have no substance. When you said they were unable to assimilate the relatively small population of Muslims into their culture and traditions that is a prejudice. That assumes no Muslims have assimilated. It also assumes those who keep their faith and traditions do not live peacefully within the country. To me that is a bias and calling it hatred is not ad hominem it is an observation.

My point is simple. There is guilt and innocence. Saying who it was before knowing is assigning a group of people guilt before knowing if that is the case, we still live in a society where guilt must be proven, at least I hope we do. If and when the group of people responsible are determined, I would also hope the guilt will be assigned to the perpetrators and ISIS, al Qaeda, or which ever psychos committed the atrocities, not the Muslim community as a whole which is so commonly the case.

While it might be fair to you to say it does not matter which group of Muslims was responsible, it is not to me. We were also specifically referencing Syrian refugees, narrowing the group from migrants to a specific group of migrants.

While you can deflect all you want, you began with blanket statements.
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theskeptic

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Reply with quote  #16 
Observer:  I will try to go slow so that you can follow:

In my initial post on this topic is said " I remain confused as to the importance of attempting to determine whether these terrorists were part of the recent Middle East invasion of Europe or whether they arrived there previously and didn’t assimilate.  "

If you read that slowly it does NOT say anything about Muslim groups as a whole .... it does NOT say that there are no peaceful muslims ... it speaks about terrorists.  It assumes that there are many muslims who are peaceful and useful citizens in any society ... it talks about terrorists. (Note: ... there is a kind of subtle clue that I'm talking about terrorists ... and that is because I used the word "terrorists":  (review remedial reading course 101)

O.K. so now if you go back and read my post ... I'm saying that I don't see any significance as to whether these TERRORISTS are imbedded as part of the existing French population or whether these TERRORISTS are imbedded as part of the recent M.E. population which forms the huge migration into Europe.  The fact is that the victims are still dead as a result of these terrorist acts.

Hopefully, you can follow the above and try in the future to avoid your propensity of grouping everyone into one of your little cliches ... racist ... homophobe ... bitcher .... etc. etc.

And yes ... if you go and check the social media ... the ISIS crowd were on Twitter within minutes of the attacks crowing (albeit unofficially) about this accomplishment. Some were crowing about it and referencing Syria.  So it seems the evidence is pointing towards ISIS or ISIL being responsible. (Try to keep up)
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Observer

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Reply with quote  #17 
Oh. I keep up. you keep changing what you say and then try to pass it off as me being a leftist Neanderthal. You are the one having difficulty understanding. But. Not too surprising. The irony in your assault on other's opinions and the defence of your own is laughable. Being condescending does not faze me.

You cleverly shift your words, or maybe absently shift into your bias when writing to try and confuse the issue and then create an illusion of being an intellectual. You did indeed say Muslims as a whole. Albeit you started out talking about terrorists. I guess it is hard for you to keep up the consistency.

And. Since you obviously have issues keeping up. I said from the outset that it was likely ISIS. That was never my contention. If you can't understand why assigning blame to the proper individuals is relevant, that is a block you have. I know you read individuals and scream terrorists, terrorists, I can't help you with that.

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Rick F

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Reply with quote  #18 
Recent immigrants/refugees or whatever, France has a big problem with the 10% arab decent population (and growing) due to France's colonial days (back to Napoleon?) of occupying Tunisia, Algeria etc and the Levant. 

Just look at the coast to Calais for refugees and the inner cities like Paris where many 'arondisments' see no police because they are no-go areas controlled by gangs etc.

It seems that some in the enclaves are answering the siren call of ISIL...
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theskeptic

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Reply with quote  #19 
Observer:  That is the best you can come up with?  Good grief charlie brown!!!
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EnoughAllready

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Reply with quote  #20 
@skeptic

Your initial comments were very easily understood..... Or at least I thought.

If the terrorists came to France 10 years ago and had become citizens and always had devious intentions or if the terrorists had just came to France with the influx or immigrants, what does that really matter???

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danapop

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Reply with quote  #21 
I think what really matters is this is going to put a ton a fear into Canadians about immigration. What is really important to remember is that these are the exact same people the refugees are fleeing. They are not one in the same.
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EnoughAllready

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Reply with quote  #22 
I agree Dana, these are indeed the people that these refugees are fleeing from but the problem is that the Liberal government wants to force mass immigration on Canada in less than 2 months. ISIS has admitted to planting members in the horde of refugees and the only way to combat this is with absolute scrutiny. Obviously this cannot be done with so many refugees so quickly.

I don't think anyone is against immigration. It's the numbers, the process, and the result.

Even with all this, you cannot be so naive as to not believe there aren't already immigrants that have legally entered Canada, that want to see our country fall.

Btw, from what I read, a Syrian passport was found on one of the terrorists.
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Fred

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Reply with quote  #23 
To me it's like swimming with Sharks, most of them won't bother you but you never know for sure, there may be one or two who want to take a bite out of you. For that reason I prefer not to swim with Sharks. 

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AlbertaShank

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Reply with quote  #24 
We offer neither the culture, climate or society these "refugees" want, and they will fight using our courts to establish their culture and religious rules. (which is occurring all over Europe and regions in the USA).   Many nations in that M.E. region should be opening their borders but it is quite telling that they are not.  Refugees and Immigration are two separate realities.  

Real-refugees.jpg 


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EnoughAllready

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Reply with quote  #25 
Those are very valid points.

You definitely should not claim refugee status with the intention of pushing your own agenda with no intention of accepting any cultural change but accepting every penny you can. Canada should not bend and not allow any immigrants or refugees to push extreme ideology.


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