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theskeptic

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Reply with quote  #26 

Your post would seem to point out the fundamental flaws inherent in the entire political correct movement.

In your opening statement you say "there is too much political correctness in certain instances" So in any given instance, who gets to decide when a restriction on freedom of thought and expression is "too much" or "not too much'? I've yet to see any election results which authorized any of the politically correct group to dictate the terms of freedom of expression to the rest of us.

Secondly, what rational society attempts to govern its rules on freedom of expression based on claims that someone's feelings have been hurt and they are "offended"?

You say the Inuit are "offended" by the use of the word "Eskimo". I and thousands of others are "offended" by their suggestion that I should not use the word "Eskimo". Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of us grew up reveling in the glory of Normie Kwong, Johnny Bright, and all the rest of the Eskimos. It was a compliment to an indigenous peoples that a professional football team had chosen to name their team after them and as the pride in the football team increased this rubbed off and created a positive image of the indigenous people called the Eskimos. So, I and thousands of others are "offended" that these people are saying that the word "Eskimo." has a negative connotation since for an "overwhelming majority of the population" it has a positive connotation in relation to the Inuit.

So yesterday it was "politically incorrect" to use the word "Eskimo" .... today its now "politically incorrect" to criticize anyone who uses the word "Eskimo" since the vast majority of Canadians are "offended" by your criticism of the word "Eskimo". The word "Eskimo" is now back in fashion.

{Note: Isn't mob rule wonderful???? ....... it has to be so much superior to that old stupid system in which the Church scholars and secular moral philosophers, as designated and open leaders in society, helped frame a moral and social mode of conduct based on the golden rule }

Thirdly, once a society submits to mob rule by the politically correct activist crowd, they have effectively denuded the Charter Right of Freedom of thought and expression to the point that it is meaningless. If a band of thugs can walk around the school yard telling everyone what words they can and cannot use .... then society has abandoned the idea of Freedom of expression.

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Observer

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Reply with quote  #27 
Then, by your argument, I guess it should be ok to use the "N" word to refer to black people then.

As long as the majority of old white people get to decide what people should be called, and what is and isn't offensive, we can all be happy. Since the white population decided the people they oppressed should be called Eskimo, how dare they eventually stand up and say 'it is not ok, that is not who we are.'

Damn them, they are who we say they are.

Thanks for letting us all know our place.

You are just practicing the opposite of what you preach. That is understandable, it fits well with that unattributed quote "When your accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

It is sad you feel showing respect is liberalized mob rule nannying.
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theskeptic

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Reply with quote  #28 

Based on your comments it seems clear that you have misunderstood my line of reasoning.

In an earlier post on this thread I said: "Traditionally, we determined right and wrong according to Judaic/Christian values which were formulated by Church scholars, such as Aquinas, who were well versed in moral philosophy. This formed an objective criteria, exterior to self, which the individual attempted to live by."

This is systemically completely different than having the general population whether 'old white people" or "old brown people" decide what words people should use or not use.

Therefore your "white privilege" comments and victimization complaints would seem to be out of context.

BTW .. If you have a Charter of Rights which says in part " 2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: ..... (b) freedom of thought,belief, opinion,and expression, ....." doesn't this mean that people in a Canadian democracy have the freedom to use the word Eskimo?

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Observer

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Reply with quote  #29 
Yep. You have the freedom to do a lot of the things. Just as I have the freedom to think you're a dick for doing it.
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Willy

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer
Yep. You have the freedom to do a lot of the things. Just as I have the freedom to think you're a dick for doing it.


Well that is quite a denigrating comment. How ironic in a thread about conduct. This shit is really getting old.
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theskeptic

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Reply with quote  #31 

Willy:  Ignore Observer.   The interesting aspects of this "enhanced" code of conduct idea which are going to require consideration would seem to be the following:
1. If you have enforcement provisions in the code of conduct how are you going to prevent politicians from using the Code for partisan purposes. Heron had mentioned she liked the Sherwood Park code but it seems that there are already complaints in Sherwood Park that it is being used for partisan purposes?  One councillor took out some adds during the election with his particular spin on events  .... and subsequently a complaint was launched against him that he breached their code of ethics by misrepresenting the facts and now he is defending himself in enforcement proceedings.

2. It is basic law that a Municipal By-law or Policy cannot contradict or exceed the scope provided under the parent legislation namely the Municipal Government Act. The MGA imposes on Councillors the duty to evaluate policies and programs, and make sure the powers dutes and functions of the municipality are appropriately carried out. Therefore anything in the code of conduct which restricts a councillor in performing these duties would, it seems, be ultra vires the MGA.

Since Crouse's prime motivation in pursuing this enhanced Code of Conduct is to try and impose impediments on Councillors addressing issues like double dipping and the hiring of Prefontaine in public by making such disclosures a breach of the code of conduct, it will be interesting to see if their new code violates the MGA, or the Charter of Rights provisions relating to freedom of expression

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OMG

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Reply with quote  #32 
There will be a special consideration in the Code of Conduct.....Crouse will be able to continue being unethical...with NO repercussions.
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Galt

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer
Then, by your argument, I guess it should be ok to use the "N" word to refer to black people then.



Whoopi Goldberg made a statement recently about being pc - replacing "negro" with the "n" word does not make either go away. It exists regardless of what society decides to replace it with. How about people just showing RESPECT to one another regardless of background origin (i.e. ethnic, colour, sexual orientation, etc.)

Totally agree with her. Pointing out differences only encourages people to see differences. And respect for one another has become such a foreign concept that we now get "mob rule" and primitive verbal "stoning". (Yeah - I know - physical stoning still exists too.).

I'm personally tired of having individuals or groups pointing out their differences and expecting me to embrace those differences. Show me and others respect and you'll earn respect regardless of your background.
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Head Honcho

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galt
In Saturday's Gazette (Gender-based attacks) Hughes definitely hit an homerun when she said "There's far greater issues that are facing governments at all levels that need to be the focus of both the people in government and the media. How are we moving forward? " Obviously we aren't. When wanna-be politicians opt to do a smear campaign on an individual who realizes they made an error in putting an unnecessary comment online, removes it and admits to an error in judgement; when the Gazette sees it fit to do a two page spread about this, it's obvious how far we as a society have fallen down Alice's rabbit hole It's interesting to note that political individuals like Hughes and Notely, who have both been at the receiving end of faux pas comments, quickly moved on with their jobs. Unfortunately society's mentality can be likened to the pecking of chickens - nasty. Maybe this is the result of packing people into high density environments.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Galt
Whoopi Goldberg made a statement recently about being pc - replacing "negro" with the "n" word does not make either go away. It exists regardless of what society decides to replace it with. How about people just showing RESPECT to one another regardless of background origin (i.e. ethnic, colour, sexual orientation, etc.) Totally agree with her. Pointing out differences only encourages people to see differences. And respect for one another has become such a foreign concept that we now get "mob rule" and primitive verbal "stoning". (Yeah - I know - physical stoning still exists too.). I'm personally tired of having individuals or groups pointing out their differences and expecting me to embrace those differences. Show me and others respect and you'll earn respect regardless of your background.


Yep, this image pretty much fits this city. Might be time to turn the tables.

Yep, they're out there in St. Albert copy.png

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theskeptic

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Reply with quote  #35 

When I was much younger it was common practice to refer to Ukrainian Canadians as "bo-hunks". As Ukrainian immigrants became integrated into the Canadian social fabric, the word "bo-hunk" quietly disappeared.

It disappeared despite the fact there was no politically correct movement, no thought police in action, and no social justice warriors feigning outrageous indignation. It disappeared despite the fact Ukrainian Canadians didn't whine and play the victim role. It disappeared because the average Canadian assessed this derogatory term and said to themselves .. "I wouldn't like to be referred to in a derogatory manner and so it is wrong for me to do so to others".

Canadians made this transition and the word "bo-hunk" simply disappeared from every day language because Canadians are overwhelmingly good and decent people who maintain a strong sense of fair play.

Hence all these allegations of "white privilege" and "victims" and allegations of "racism" would seem to be a mis-characterization of our society. That depiction of society does not explain how we improved our society without the coercion of these modern day social justice warriors.

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Head Honcho

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Reply with quote  #36 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theskeptic

When I was much younger it was common practice to refer to Ukrainian Canadians as "bo-hunks". As Ukrainian immigrants became integrated into the Canadian social fabric, the word "bo-hunk" quietly disappeared. 

 

It disappeared despite the fact there was no politically correct movement, no thought police in action, and no social justice warriors feigning outrageous indignation. It disappeared despite the fact Ukrainian Canadians didn't whine and play the victim role. It disappeared because the average Canadian assessed this derogatory term and said to themselves .. "I wouldn't like to be referred to in a derogatory manner and so it is wrong for me to do so to others". 

 

Canadians made this transition and the word "bo-hunk" simply disappeared from every day language because Canadians are overwhelmingly good and decent people who maintain a strong sense of fair play. 

 

Hence all these allegations of "white privilege" and "victims" and allegations of "racism" would seem to be a mis-characterization of our society. That depiction of society does not explain how we improved our society without the coercion of these modern day social justice warriors.

 

Where to start? The majority of today’s ‘inexperienced adults’ who cluster in local ‘loosely organized groups’ and claim some type of moral superiority over the rest of us, flash their faces and ideas all over Twitter and Facebook, are clueless about life and it is depressing. Having lived in Alberta for more years than most of them have been alive, once can sit back and observe their newfound ‘wisdom’ failing day by day. Sadly, they have no clue how wrong they are and how failure will follow them for the next twenty or more years if they continue. In fact it will come back to haunt them all, both ideologically and financially. I suppose ignorance is bliss, but I fear for their futures.

 

Yep, I too can go back to my younger years and recount the tales of those mid 1950s when I was a dozen years old and watched it all unfold.

 

While I too heard the term ‘bo-hunks’ from time to time, the term I heard more in our corner of southern Saskatchewan was ‘DPs’. While I suspect a a young teen it was but a milder term for ‘bo-hunk’, it labelled those people as ‘Displaced Persons’. It was a kinder term used by my father, a police officer to refer to those who rode the rails of the Canadian Pacific Railway mainline all the way from the Atlantic coast to the heart of the Canadian prairies in southwestern Saskatchewan.

 

I can clearly recall those folks covered in the soot of steam engines from riding the dirty freight trains coming to our door, just 100 yards from the tracks and the first visible residence in the town. All they wanted was a little human compassion in the form of a drink and some sustenance they had not had, for often days at a time.

 

Never once did my parents refuse them something. We were far from rich, but cheese and bread was always kept to share with the unfortunate. Many of them could not speak english and communicated by hand gestures to alert us to their hunger.

 

I shall never forget those who passed by our home in the thousands over those years. Nor will I forget the generosity of our neighbours in our little area of a Saskatchewan city who offered them some comfort, lodging in our barns and sheds and food and drink.

 

Oddly enough, many of them were so taken by our efforts to assist them, they offered to do chores or whatever else they could to repay the kindness, in spite of the language barriers.

 

Many of them settled within a few miles of us and began the process to build themselves a better life. They become our neighbours and friends over the next couple of decades. They accepted our chosen way of life and melded into the community, becoming an integral part of our lives. They learned english and taught us much about skills they possessed from ‘the old country’ that were previously unknown to us.

 

In contrast, we now have people locally in their 30s and 40s who somehow think they have gained the right to dictate how our community will go into the future from their position of being born with a silver spoon in their mouths, some of them not ever holding a responsible position in their lives. People who came from, or who are part of broken homes, failed businesses or even sub par attempts at life in general along with those who inherited parent’s businesses with no idea of the trials and sacrifices those before them encountered.

 

Sigh, it is just so damn depressing that they somehow believe they know better about life than those who retain the wisdom of years. May the gods help our country and protect us from these misguided souls.

 
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Murray Lambert

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Reply with quote  #37 
So well put by theskeptic and Head Honcho, I too can identify with their recollections and experiences. I would only add may God protect them from themselves while he's at it.
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Swallow1

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Reply with quote  #38 
@HH RE: "...no idea of the trials and sacrifices those before them encountered."

Don't forget - we raised them.....
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Head Honcho

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Reply with quote  #39 
Got the following email from Gord Hennigar last night, anyone know what might be going on?

Hi Everyone;

 

Tomorrow at the Council Meeting at 2 pm at St. Albert Place Chambers a very contentious issue is going to be brought to the Council’s attention.

 

Plan to be at the Council Meeting or watch it on the Live Streaming on the City Website.

 

You might be shocked at what you are going to hear.

 

Plan to be there at 2 pm tomorrow at Chambers.

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Since2000

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Reply with quote  #40 
They better vote yes to Servus place expansion and new ice surfaces.
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Head Honcho

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Reply with quote  #41 
Council needs to realize there is a full blown recession in Alberta and now is NOT the time to spend money on anything that will result in raising taxes.

Ditto for the Dippers, who are spending us into the poorhouse with much more to come with their upcoming carbon tax. The economy will be bent to its knees.
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Head Honcho

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Reply with quote  #42 
Well, well, well a deep throat called to inform me what is going on at council today and this meeting ought to be a doozie.  Talk about karma!

I won't spoil the surprise but I can assure you that it will be worth your while to attend or even watch online, but don't be late as things will get rolling very early in the meeting which starts promptly at 2:00 p.m. 

I can hardly wait.
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K Van Hoof

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Reply with quote  #43 
Well it's now 4:45...what's happened? I know what was supposed to be brought up (prob the same deep throat [wink] ) , but I've been too busy to attend or watch. Don't keep us hanging!
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Head Honcho

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Reply with quote  #44 
I managed to grab the event by doing my own recording of the presentation by a St. Albert homeowner who called on council to remove mayor Nolan Crouse from office due to a conflict of interest under the MGA.

I will publish this video on the main page tomorrow, but will post it here for members to view this evening. Please do not release or copy this video until the morning when it is published on the main page. Thanks! 

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Willy

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Reply with quote  #45 
Well now, isnt that video interesting. According to the MGA any councilor who votes on a matter that he/she has a direct conflict of interest must be removed from office.  If not voluntary then City Council must take legal action to remove said councilor from office. Well I can think of several times Crouse was in a direct conflict of interest.  Now we have the teeth to get him out.  Lets hope this works. 
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K Van Hoof

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Reply with quote  #46 
When exactly was this business started? Who was the mayor at that time? Just curious..
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forchatonly

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Reply with quote  #47 
From the text on SAP front page it was over 30 years ago which would most likely put it in Fowler's term 1980 - 89.

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forchatonly

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Reply with quote  #48 
For info. The minutes of the meeting March 7 2016 where this issue was discussed in camera shows:

(C145-2Q16) Moved by Councillor MacKav
That the confidential recommendation be approved, as amended, and the details of the in camera discussion remain confidential in accordance with Sections 24 and 27 of FOIP. CARRIED
For: Brodhead, Heron, Hughes, MacKay, Osborne, Russell
Against: Crouse 

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OMG

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Reply with quote  #49 
Can't even fathom the struggle Craig Skarupa and family have endured. What a sorry mess. St Albert owes Craig/his family/neighbours big time.
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goldfinger41

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Reply with quote  #50 
My only comment is: "There are so many rights that no one has any."
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